Thursday, April 2, 2009

Searching for an intelligent debate re: Long Gun legislation

This is a pet peeve of mine. I have read a number of items from people who oppose abolishing the Long Gun Registry, and have never found any of them to be convincing. In fact, most of the time they rely on catch phrases, rhetoric, bias borne from swishing down contemporary urban thought process with pints of spittle and other misc. tidbits which they cannot support thoroughly with numbers.

This bill does not propose scrapping the entire gun registry. It does not propose changing the status of firearms that are currently illegal. Kalashnikov's will still be illegal. It does not propose ending the very time consuming and intrusive process involved in obtaining a license to own a firearm or any of the other laws associated with that.

What it addresses is, ending the record keeping arm of the bureaucracy which is related to Long guns. Such things as hunting rifles, military rifles (non automatic) and antique rifles.

At the heart of this, is a clash of cultures, era's and political pandering. What we have in essence, is a time warp of sorts. The cities have lot's of trouble's these days with drugs, drug dealers, assorted criminal elements and they also have noisy special interest groups. The issue of the Long guns has become a crutch for those who haven't the courage to admit where the real source of their troubles comes from. That being themselves, their daily habits and weaknesses and dull wits. Oh look, there's a new bandwagon to jump on! Hurry!

At the core of my gripes is another consideration, that being the lack of public input and regional representation involved when these laws and regulations were initially implemented. I don't remember any public discussions in my area. I don't remember this being an important election plank. I don't remember the government of the day giving consideration to a long established right, and the weight of past practice involved. What I remember is the arrogance of a majority federal government who as usual, acted based on what was politically expedient at the time.

I don't presume to have basis to tell Ontario, Quebec or B.C. what to do about the problems that have been created, largely in their high population areas. If they can't address the drug issues, without encompassing laws covering ownership of guns, then that is something for them to deal with. And that is who I think should deal with it. I think most of the responsibility for gun legislation should rest with provincial governments. Perhaps incorporating municipal government where warranted. Situations such as what is experienced in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver would suggest that might be sensible. It would localize controls on an as needed basis, plus costs as well.

But this one size fits all routine, sticks in my craw. I live in the outbacks, I don't want the troubles of the cities, and I don't need no steenkin' Big Brother telling me whether I's growed up enough to own a gun. Sometimes I wondered if Big Brother is all growed up?


  1. You`ll note all the advocates of the gun registry were all recipients of the $2b slush fund.

  2. I have no idea where the $2 billion went, I just know it went. Before we got too deep into that, I have some doubts about some of that stimulus money recently approved, and I think it's curious that Stylish Steve stated government should over act regarding the recession. Hmmmm..fill the trough before the political tides change maybe? Or a case of trying to encourage the Americans to spend spend spend?

    Just speculating of course.

  3. "government should over act"

    another journal entry by the liars thieves and cheats.

    There is absolutely no doubt in anyones mind the primary function of the stimulus is to cover the deficit that started occurring last year. I don`t think there is a single Cdn believes our Stevie that this deficit just occurred. I`ll bet the books are so far out of balance the majority of the stimulus will go to the existing deficit that has structural implications.

  4. msm graces us with

    "Harper said that while the global recession is deeper than it was in November, there's still a lot of stability in the system"

    Solid as the Canadian Shield.

    Incredible enough Harper thinks we believe anything he says but even more so msm acts like they do.

  5. You have to be old enough, pass a test, and register your car in order to drive.

    Why the fuss over having similar regulations for guns?

    Yeah, I agree that ownership of hunting rifles has nothing to do with the drug/gang/handgun crimes going on in major cities, but the issues don't need to be tied together. You might think you're "growed up" enough to own a gun and I'm sure you are. But articles like the one from yesterday's Calgary Herald ( show that sometimes, people (like those who abuse their wives) should NOT be considered "growed up" enough to own them and asking them to register their gun helps the RCMP identify potentially bad situations.

    And if you really want a public discussion on this, contact your MP. Don't just complain.

  6. Saying men with guns are a danger to women and control is needed to protect them and children is a complete false trail to lead us away from the majority of instigators of DV and child abuse, women.
    Hard to twist the stats but far more children die at the hands of their mother than father and certainly many many more than at the hands of a farther with a gun.

    Nice try but we know the facts on DV and abuse.

  7. In order to sell a $2b slush fund to the public many lies were generated for the reasons to register long guns. Since the registry only 3 murders have been committed by registered long guns, hardly worth spending $2b when it could have increased all aspects of law enforcement including arresting and jailing the primary abusers.

  8. First Anon, guns and ownership thereof preceded automobiles. Automobiles preceded government licensing requirements. Past practice has foundation in law.

    Why fuss you ask? Well, if you enjoy being regulated endlessly and being told what you can and can't do to the extent that our society dictates, including blanket measures such as this, then we will likely differ to a large extent in our overall views.

    If you agree that long guns have no bearing on the drug/gang scenario, then why are we wasting money tracking farmers, hunters and old men who have a gun? So the Police can know if there is one registered at a residence? Whatever did they do before the registry? How did they manage? Do you acknowledge that the threat they are guarding against is largely due to drug activity and that this circumstance is most prevalent in urban areas with concentrated populations? Which brings me back to my provincial and possibly municipal jurisdiction proposals.

    Surely, even Liberals can see the folly of wasting tax payers money on trendy concerns. Especially in these times.

    And Anon, please don't get focused on the little worms I throw out, like "growed up" Focus on the points I make please.

    I went to your link, and saw a number of contentious and vague claims, such as the RCMP claims of increased incidents involving long guns in rural Alberta. I would ask, what the increase was and if it was substantial? In fact, I would want to see the actual data before putting any stock in that. There is an inquiry going on presently, which suggests RCMP statements should be examined.

    Many broad statements made in that link which are clearly opinion based and not backed up with data. Typical.I've researched the data on the Internet, and it does not support claims made in that article. In my area, a woman was charged recently for chasing her husband through a mall while brandishing a carving knife and uttering repeated death threats.

    Anyone can cherry pick and throw isolated incidents into the discussion, and that is a common choice for opponents of this bill.

    If you don't want a public discussion on this, why blog about it? Is blogging only about finding a soap box and preaching to the converted? Sounds a lot like Small Dead Animals to me.

    Do you operate Foot to the Fire blog as well?

  9. It sounds like Leasa's back.

  10. "There is an inquiry going on presently, which suggests RCMP statements should be examined."

    Several I believe. The VPD seems particularly in the deep stuff. This recent mistaken identify shooting isn`t the first. I recall 15 years or so ago a man by the name of Binette was sitting in a car in Vancouver when the police opened the door and shot him dead, oops, mistaken identity. Come to think of it I don`t believe the`ve ever released the results of any investigation that was done.

    All the police forces received funding from the registry through the AG and with the RCMP pension fund scam I wonder if there wasn`t another adscam type flow of funds happening that involved the RCMP.

    All in all the registry is a huge slush fund supported by one of the biggest hoaxes msm has ever perpetrated on the public.

  11. Anyone can cherry pick and throw isolated incidents into the discussion, and that is a common choice for opponents of this bill.

    I agree with you and the others Comrade. Only the long guns. I understand they wanted to include handguns and semis?? Who the fuck would be stupid enough to go hunting with a semi? Shouldn't even be legal in Canada.

    I think the concern should be about the precedent, long guns today, hand guns tomorrow and semis the day after that. Once the door is opened??? Everyone knows the powerful gun lobbyists have been working very hard on this government.

  12. I have never owned or held a gun, rifle or anything like that and don't intend to, so I am hereby passing on this debate.
    From 'Cheers', a little beer philosophy to start with . . .

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    'In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Now, as we know, excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.

    'In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.

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    So as to get your day / night off to a reasonably good start, a very (uplifting) clip . . .

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  13. Yes Dee, there are people who hunt game with a semi. Some hunt ducks and other game birds with semi auto shotguns too. Always seemed a dumb thing to me, as there is not much sport in it. And I agree, that they are not necessary. Hand guns should stay as they are, imo except in cases where the situation warrants changes. That's why I think it should be more a regional concern than a National one. Some basic National laws, then regional for the rest. If I lived in Surrey B.C., I could understand banning handguns in the area. At least until they got control of the problems they have now.

    I wonder how much change Harper would actually entertain Dee? He is very law and order orientated. I think they are only doing this because it has been an issue within his party for a long time. My thinking is that he would pacify them with the minimum, and I don't actually expect this bill to pass. So the argument is likely to be moot in the end, but I like to give it a poke every now and then.

  14. Yes Dee, there are people who hunt game with a semi.

    Where's the challenge or sport? Stupid.

    A note on Monday's column: In spite of the Prime Minister's recent call on Ontario anglers and hunters to lobby opposition MPs to support the repeal of the long-gun registry, his office maintains that Stephen Harper does not actually back the only bill on the parliamentary order paper that deals with the issue. That's because bill C-301 goes further than official Conservative policy and covers weapons other than long guns.

    But inasmuch as its author, MP Gary Breitkreuz, is seeking to address those reservations, there is every reason to believe that the Conservatives will rally behind their colleague's bill when it is eventually voted on.

    From Chantal Hebert's editorial:

    Haven't read the bill as it stands but if it includes handguns and semis, I would vote against it too.

  15. Comrade?
    City folks don't understand the impact of registry and the rural community don't understand the registry only the impact.

    So, unless you have never lived in a rural community where long guns are a necessity you'll never understand how intrusive and expensive registry is.

    If you've never lived in the city where long gun violence occurs more than it should you wouldn't understand how important registry is.

    Hebert makes a good point about allowing the provinces to decide.

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    The recording cost $6 million and it took 3 months to finish, including the engineering design of the sequence.

    The duration of the video is only 2 minutes, but every time that Honda shows the commercial on British television, they make enough money to support any of us for the rest of our lives.

    However, this commercial has turned out to be the most displayed in the history of the Internet.

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    Everything you see in the sequence (besides the walls, floor, ramp and untouched Honda Accord) is part of two automobiles.

    BTW, about the windshield wipers in the new Honda Accords, they are sensitive to water and designed to start working as soon as they get wet. --
    Two links are from different sites, with both giving a look at SDRs. First comes from an article written in 1994 but bought to the attention of today's readers of; second is up-to-date from

    The out-takes are from the first link. -- and

    ". . . What is needed is a World Government. . . . some of the most important new institutions would be financial-a World Treasury and a World Central Bank. . . . But the idealist of today often turns out to be the realists of tomorrow.

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    "(1) stabilize global economic activity
    "(2) lender of last resort to financial institutions
    "(3) calm jittery financial markets
    "(4) regulate financial institutions and
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    "The institution named to be the successor organization was the International Monetary Fund. This new central bank would float a new issue of Special Drawing Rights-SDRs and it would have "Global Macroeconomic Management" worldwide. It would also acquire some regular control of international banking activities."
    Read the first para. re: King Vladimir Putin. Why not? This whole mess will carry on for quite a while yet, with lots of twists and unexpected turns. --

  17. I have lived in both Dee, and I find that attitudes in the cities vary as well, depending on the area. The big centres are where the fear is, and much of that comes from press coverage and quite likely the psychological effect of TV. American TV and movies are morbidly fascinated with crime and violence and that has to work on people's psyche.

    I wrote to several blogs yesterday on this subject, ones where the bloggers had posted pieces stating their opposition to this Bill 301 or whatever it is, and some got published, and some didn't. Nothing nasty, just presenting different viewpoints. Convenient free speech I guess. No matter. In one piece I wrote about a situation we experienced in Southern Ontario, when my Son inadvertently took a used, bent pellet to school in his pocket. When he discovered it and took it out and fiddled with it, a teacher saw it. It was taken away and he was told he would be expelled if it happened again. A bent pellet! What was he going to do with that? Could have done more damage with a marble. Talk about paranoia.

    When I wuz a young feller, I used to put my shotgun and shells behind the seat of my old half ton truck on Fridays during Duck season, and go to school. It stayed there until late afternoon and a bunch of us would go out to the marshes to hunt, swap some stories, tell some lies. Guy stuff..

  18. Dee, from what I understand of the Bill, in it's original form, it was broader but the MP crafting it has been working on it to bring it to deal with long guns only. I've read quite a bit of criticism from Conservatives over this. They are not happy that it is going to be diluted.

    I would be happy if the restrictions on long guns were taken away, and more common sense was applied to the licensing of long gun owners. This entire thing from it's inception, including the FAC program has been one royal F*ck up. After demanding people obtain those FAC's, they managed to lose most of those records. Supposedly in a fire. People don't know about that little ditty. That's one reason there are still so many unregistered guns. They don't know where they are or where to look.

    As I mentioned in my last post, I have been trying to engage those opposed to this bill, and the concept of it and have found many have very shallow positions and are largely mouthing popular Liberal party justifications. But when asked to defend their positions, they react either with name calling/tags, not posting your thoughts, or drop the subject post haste. They know the data doesn't support their positions, so if throwing red herrings about doesn't work, they beat a hasty retreat.

  19. "City folks don't understand the impact of registry and the rural community don't understand the registry only the impact"

    As noted registered long have been responsible for a total of 3 murders since inception. It would seem crimes committed with unregistered long guns is the problem. Even if you could get the criminals to register them, would hesitate using a long gun if it were registered?

    I`ll paint it a little more vivid. As all us hunters etc have said from day one, the people that register don`t commit crimes with their long guns. The ones that do, don`t register.

    They only people that don`t understand the $2b slush fund are the ones that think its about gun crime when it`s about government corruption..

  20. "the ones that think its about gun crime when it`s about government corruption"

    The magnitude of corruption within our system isn`t just the gross size of the scams perpetrated by the federal government. The true scale of Cdn corruption is the system itself. Every government debt or government agency turns its back on manufactured reports and evidence. Even though the statical data is available on the scams msm is obliged to report on the lies fully aware that the lowest municipal agency is capable and even likely to abuse the power it holds.

    I can`t see how the increasing false reports on the economy or the social implications of the real crime rate before enough people say enough and force this government to step down.

    I`m thinking about the time economic reality rolls over the governments position will be an opportunity perhaps not to be seen again under this political environment.

    Could be a few more governments stepping down before this global issue has turned.

  21. Thanks Don. I went over and read the wiki entry about the topic. Seems like it is more about corruption than anything.

    There are a few people around here who thought the registry was expensive. Some of these people live on an income of under 12K/yr and any added expense is a hardship.