Saturday, February 14, 2009

Tipping Point and the Power of Suggestion

Glancing at Garth's offering for the day, the Title of a book on his list caught my eye and I googled up some info. I thought this wiki entry worth pointing to encourage a bit of thought.

A number of items in the brief synopsis seem relevant to ongoing circumstances and how influencing the thinking of large groups of people is achieved. When I got to the part on Salesmen, a recent example came to mind. I was at a Wholesale Auto Auction recently and listened to the shyster owner/operator repeat two things again and again, in order to achieve maximum impact with the fewest words.

These were, "it's from the bank", and "a fresh trade in from new car store X". X being a specific new car GM store. I won't mention the name. You see, both of these things were intended to convey confidence and legitimacy. "The Bank", "fresh trade", "new car store". All intended to instill a false sense of confidence, especially considering the "As is, where is" terms of these sales.

I couldn't help smile a wry smile and think of the similarity to politics. BTW, I am an old hand at the Auto Auction game, so these things have no effect on me. Speaking of which, if the public who attends these Auctions knew half of the games played there and the background behind the business strategies, they wouldn't go if they were paid to.

But, ignorance is bliss.


  1. Comrade this reminds me of thinking recently about the MSM.

    Six months ago they were echoing Harpers strong as the Canadian shield message and anyone questioning the stormclouds in the rest of the world or mentioned the shudder "R" word was attacked by a pack of wolves. How many people would have been saved misery then with real knowlege let alone how many billions would have been still in RRSPs with some mild suggestions that we needed to start looking ahead.

    Just a few short months ago they let Harper away when in the middle of an election and a stock market melt down he went on tv and said it might be a good time to buy stock. He got a minor brushing down but nothing that could have changed the election but again our media only started talking about a possible mild slow down in the future and never questioned whether we were in one then or not.

    Now I turn the news off because it is gasoline on the fire with one story after another of doom and gloom. They completly fail to point out that every country, region, community and individual is affected differently and at different levels. By crying wolf now they are shutting down economies in regions like where I live that haven't been affected yet and would otherwise have still been consumming which would have slowed down the drop and helped in recovery. Even worse they fail to point out the companies that have changed to survive and the opportunities coming as the big corporate dinosaurs start falling. When I think back this one sided unbalanced way of looking at the world has been going on forever and probably explains why I enjoy reading British newspapers like the independent that present a more balanced and detailed take on local and world events. Last spring they were predicting the mess we are in now along with how long Iceland could keep going. Its hard to find real journalists these days.

  2. Looks like GM may be filing for C11.

    There's a lot of crap in msm. I try to follow the blogs. Mr. Garth's for one even though there is a lot of doom & gloom there but there's also a lot info that can be gleaned from it. This whole thing comes down to confidence and levels of trust. I don't trust our government at All. Dion may not have been a leader everyone wanted but I felt I could trust him to do the right thing for Canada and Canadians. Obama is trying but is climbing an uphill battle. Don't know why he was talked out of nationalizing the big banks but it would have done a lot for confidence and levels of trust not only in the U.S. but all over the world.

    With Dion I felt that he would lead us (as in Canada) to do our own thing without having to wait for the Yanks. Now? It feels to me as though we have to wait until the Yanks clean up their mess. Harper is waiting for that or is making us feel that way. He really isn't much of leader is he? Anyway, until I start to feel confidence I'm not going to spend my hard earned dollars on stuff that I'm only made to feel as though I need instead of really need. People I've talked to feel as though they have to make up for their pension shortfalls so they're trying to save as much money as they can.

    Did that make sense?

  3. Perhaps they'll change some of the mortgage rules now. There but for the grace of G............

  4. Dee

    I havn't believed the news for a long time but it is good to keep up with the propaganda that the masses follow. If we had real news outlets and reporters in this country like they seem to still have elsewhere then at least those that look ouside the box will have fair warning on what is coming and can adjust accordingly.

    I agree with you on Dion as he struck me as trustworthy as well. The greenshift was the exact tonic we need now and if he as running the show there would be far more confidence in this country and the slow down would not be as bad as Harper and his media friends are making it now.

    I read that about GM too and hopefully governments will learn their lesson and let the dinosaurs go extinct so we can start over with new life forms adapted to the new climate that is emerging. If our government had an iq over 10 they would buy up gms assets in Canada turn them into a company and sell shares to Canadian to start a new car company. Magna may buy the most and start building that electric car they are talking about for awhile. The government could take the same money recovered from the stock sale and do it all over again and again to start up several small Canadian companies to get our manufacturing economy growing again. Sorry must have been day dreaming!

  5. Dee

    "Did that make sense?'

    Yes, very much so.

    "Harper is waiting for that or is making us feel that way. He really isn't much of leader is he?'

    As the leader his primary function is to insure the economy remains stable. Stability requires growth through productivity gains that comes from investment. He`s had 3 years to restore investor confidence and failed, it`s time for him to go but that still won`t solve our economic problems. Not only do we have to wait for a US recovery but a world recovery as we have no investment. That`s why it`ll take a decade for our economy to stabilize let alone recover.

    I remind you don`t be fooled by a technical recovery, it`ll only be as big as the deficit and only last as long as we can keep printing money, that could easily be this year.

    Dion could have done a much better job selling a new tax in an economic downturn but he would have been better served by an economic plan rather than an environmental plan.

  6. Happy Valentine's Day! Indulge in too much chocolate, drink gallons of red plonk and enjoy an excruciating headache tomorrow!
    No explanation is needed to figure out that stupid is as stupid does; plus, it's true . . .

    In March, 1999 a man living in Kandos (near Mudgee in New South Wales) received a bill for his as yet unused gas line stating that he owed $0.00. He ignored it and threw it away.

    In April he received another bill and threw that one away too. The following month the gas company sent him a very nasty note stating they were going to cancel his gas line if he didn't send them $0.00 by return mail. He called them, talked to them, and they said it was a computer error and they would take care of it.

    The following month he decided that it was about time that he tried out the troublesome gas line figuring that if there was usage on the account it would put an end to this ridiculous predicament. However, when he went to use the gas, it had been cut off.

    He called the gas company who apologised for the computer error once again and said that they would take care of it. The next day he got a bill for $0.00 stating that payment was now overdue. Assuming that having spoken to them the previous day the latest bill was yet another mistake, he ignored the bill, trusting that the company would be as good as their word and sort the problem out.

    The next month he got a bill for $0.00. This bill also stated that he had 10 days to pay his account or the company would have to take steps to recover the debt.

    Finally, giving in, he thought he would beat the company at their own game and mailed them a cheque for $0.00. The computer duly processed his account and returned a statement to the effect that he now owed the gas company nothing at all. A week later, the manager of the Mudgee branch of the Westpac Banking Corporation called our hapless friend and asked him what he was doing writing cheque for $0.00.

    After a lengthy explanation the bank manager replied that the $0.00 cheque had caused their cheque processing software to fail. The bank could therefore not process ANY cheques they had received from ANY of their customers that day because the cheque for $0.00 had caused the computer to crash.

    The following month the man received a letter from the gas company claiming that his cheque had bounced and that he now owed them $0.00 and unless he sent a cheque by return mail they would take immediate steps to recover the debt.

    At this point, the man decided to file a debt harassment claim against the gas company. It took him nearly 2 hours to convince the clerks at the local courthouse that he was not joking but convince them he did and they subsequently assisted him in the drafting of statements which were considered substantive evidence of the aggravation and difficulties he had been forced to endure during this debacle.

    The matter was heard in the Magistrate's Court in Mudgee and the outcome was this:

    The gas company was ordered to:

    1) Immediately rectify their computerised accounts system or show cause, within 10 days, why the matter should not be referred to a higher court for consideration under Company Law.

    2) Pay the bank dishonour fees incurred by the man.

    3) Pay the bank dishonour fees incurred by all the Westpac clients whose cheques had been bounced on the day our friend's had been.

    4) Pay the claimant's court costs; and

    5) Pay the claimant a total of $1500 per month for the 5 month period March to July inclusive as compensation for the aggravation they had caused their client to suffer.

    Addendum: Could it be that Hank Paulson, Mark Carney, Ben Bernanke, Bernie Madoff and many others were at the helm of this sinking ship? They all had to start somewhere, and stranger things than this have happened!
    It seems only fair that as TROTW (The Rest Of The World) is flushed down a giant latrine, one more country, due to gross overspending, is now headed the same way as well.

    Who will bail them out? Well, North America is broke, so I guess it brings on the second of two articles. --
    The Ontario Supreme Court has given law-enforcement agencies the right to spy on, and use individual's ISPs and IP addresses to garner as much info. as they want without telling them.

    No doubt this will spread thruout the country, so Big Brother is now here. --
    Referring back to the above joke, this is a reminder about individuals (fanatics, the REAL terrorists) who believe they 'control' the world. Why anyone wants to 'control' this classroom of a planet is beyond me.

    What a complete and utter waste of time and energy. One can only control him / herself, no more.
    "Economic crises have been produced by us for the goyim by no other means than the withdrawal of money from circulation." -- Protocols of Zion - 20

    "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." -- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

  7. Charles? The privacy thing was happening a long time ago in Britain and I expect nothing less from our plods.

    poppavox? You are absolutely right. I don't intend to follow any numbers given by our leaders. Eyes wide open. I think the reason why Dion or his handlers chose the green way was because they thought it would have been an easier sell. Even Manley criticized his economical downturn campaign. Shoulda, woulda, coulda......

    Had this company pointed out to me by my dh and resident expert. They applied for IPO so it will be interesting to follow them and see how they do. Check out who their partners are.

  8. Dee
    "I don't intend to follow any numbers given by our leaders."

    Government has decades of failed policy to hide so not trusting government is a good start in getting our Canada back. MSM is another that should be shunned of trust.
    Just tonight on CTV on a segment about the exploding violence in BC they interviewed a survivor that turned his life around. He said it can happen to anyone as he was even from a good family.

    Here`s the stats, 80% of repeat young offenders and 80% of prison inmates are from single parent homes. CTV and in fact all Cdn media has been helping government spin the untruths.

    They all know federal policy has abused hundreds of thousands of children that are feeding the gangs but protecting government against criticism takes precedent over the facts.

    Here`s a news flash, not only does government and the media know the truth, so do international investors, and now they have the results rolling over Vancouver and now cities throughout the province. btw a lot of BC gang members are heading east, enjoy.

    no justice, no investment

    I can wait, can you?

  9. Morning Wayup, I have noticed the same thing about MSM and UK newspapers. Comrade Charles got me on to the It has more diverse stories of interest and yes, they do offer a more balanced approach. Much more.

    I had all but forgotten Harper's investment advice. Some economist. I guess that's why he tries so hard to keep his day job.

  10. Have been unable to post any comments on this site during the last three days because of a glitch at this end (word verification would not load.) Wasn't even able to welcome Charles back, so: Welcome back, Charles!

    Here is a bit of revolutionary writing that should - but won't - give even capitalists pause: "Capitalism’s Self-inflicted Apocalypse", at

  11. Hey Charlesius, top of the morn to ya.

    Having lived in the industrial heartland for many years I would say that if any region would move more toward big brotherism, it would be them. They already have the most freedom smothering legal system in Canada in my opinion, so this is in keeping.

    Crafty too, to use child porn as the door opener. Who is going to squawk about that?

    Remember that big case some years ago about child porn, in BC I think? In that instance the legal system legitimized a good deal of this and then here we are a few years later with the same legal system interfering with the rights of ordinary people in order to patch up their own mistakes. Same basic thing with the gun laws and the registry.

    All the while they keep heaping on more and more layers to enact these things.

  12. Herb you really have an interesting view.

    Why should capitalist pause?
    Capitalists know that the sub-prime idea of putting everyone in a house wether they could pay for it or not was pushed by the socialists. Further the problem created will now be solved by using the wealth of the nation to pay for it, pure socialism.
    It`s socialism that`s failing, just like it always has, and not capitalism. It`s capitalism that will turn this around, not making slaves out of the next generation.

    I notice he claims as capitalism spreads so does poverty. I`ll bet he`s the same wack job that came up with the notion the most important thing to a child is child support.

  13. Herb I`d like to add there is reason to say capitalism failed. It was the wealth created by capitalism that gave socialism the funding in the form of ever increasing government revenue leading to our biggest government ever along with a massive planned increase in the US government.

  14. Enter the Duck of Westminster, the UK's richest landowner, Feudal Lord and Capitalist.

  15. Well, Robert, you really are good for a surprise now and then.

    If capitalism was no part of but will solve this problem, why are you railing about your children and grandchildren being indentured? All they have to worry about is earning enough money to pay taxes and buy what they might need (or want.) The "wealth of the nation" - good thing income taxes are no part of this! - and vodoo economics will take care of everything else.

    You should post your view of capitalism and socialism on and enjoy being an instant hero.

  16. I see Poppavox, aka, numerous avatars, too man to remember, is at it again. Oh yea, the socialists are totally at fault. I guess the socialists, and not the capitalists, brought us to this point. Get your head our of the sand Poppavox.

    I don`t follow that blog Herb.

    I see you don`t agree with my assessment, have you failed to note the global markets do??
    That goes for you too anon as telling me I have my head in the sand when the markets tanked after the treasury secretary announced his bank plan.
    Open your eyes to the facts aka reality.

  18. "You should post your view of capitalism and socialism on"

    Wall Herb, I suspect because I laugh at the notion socialism is the saviour of capitalism you have completely forgotten the message I have constantly carried since 9/11. The problem is corruption. Our federal government is a system broken by corruption. Not capitalism or our socialist programs, it`s corruption. Any fix has to start with replacing this broken system. That`s what I`ve been railing against all alone so indenturing our children for life to prop up this mess is foolish.
    I don`t know what it is you`re trying to sell by denying corruption is the problem we have with government but I`ll stand with the children before I`ll stand with you and government.
    Deal With It

    economic conditions will,,,

  19. Well, Robert, here we go again. Before you get even more ad hominem, try to hoist in the following.

    The government is no more corrupt than the rest of us. It is universal greed that has screwed us up, both economically and governmentally. What I continue to "deny" is your one-sided insistence that the whole governmental system has to be replaced. Sure, but replaced by what? Your provincially-nominated government, of course, which, however, changes only the way corrupt politicians are appointed, and in no way prevents or fixes the corruption of politics and politicians.

    What I continue to "sell" is reality, both in the consideration of human nature and in the matter of government. Apart from that, I'm on the side of the angels, motherhood and children myself. (As our daughter told us on her birthday two weeks ago, "Thank you for not having an abortion.")

    What's there to deal with?

  20. "What I continue to "sell" is reality, both in the consideration of human nature and in the matter of government."

    What you continue to "try to sell" is a failed status quo.

  21. "(As our daughter told us on her birthday two weeks ago, "Thank you for not having an abortion.")

    In a world long ago, those I will refer to as we, adopted a 3 wk old boy. I have always appreciated the strength, of his birth Mother, and in my mind and heart, thanked her for not aborting him. He shares her hard head and strength of will. Both far from perfect, but both alive and contributing to society.

    Power to the People.

  22. Herb, there in no doubt by anyone we not only have a worsening economic catastrophe but a societal one as well.
    If you`re going to reject changing the system, including suggestions for change in favor of `incremental steps`, at least include step one so we can continue this very important discussion.

  23. Comrade One,

    I should have mentioned that it was our daughter's 28th birthday, so she had some idea what she was talking about. As I replied to her, no fetus ever faced less danger of being aborted. (Must admit, though, that I could have strangled her a few times as she grew up.)


    yes, I'm still for "incrementalism" as the way to reward or punish politicians and thus change the cogs in the system without waiting for constitutional changes that will not happen because they would depend on the people for whom change would be suicidal. A corrupt system (and our “nominal” democracy is corrupt!) has no intention of correcting itself - it's up to us to correct it, and we can do so.

    We do need large infusions of cash to keep the Great God Marketplace going. The question is whether we permit the manipulators behind the curtain to carry on as before. Being innocent, I would say take over banks and deal with creditor and debtor clients directly, rather than just relieving the banks of toxic debt. Use EI to put significant money into the hands of the unemployed to get consumer demand going again, at the same time reassuring those fearing for their jobs, rather than just piling dough into sectors in the hope that it will trickle down to stimulate demand in due course.

    You and I had a discussion about child poverty on two years ago. Increase the financial pressures on families and see what the effect on children will be. Let's not go that route.

    By the way, Scott Pelley had a segment on the making of the mortgage crisis on "6o Minutes" tonight. Little socialism there. If you missed it, you can catch it on

  24. "Use EI to put significant money into the hands of the unemployed to get consumer demand going again"

    Everybody else read the following, in case you missed it I`ll explain again.
    The Cdn plan is to inject $32B to stimulate the economy. Even if all $32B went to EI it would not replace lost consumer spending. Cdn consumers added $300B to their $1T debt in the last year, $32b would only cover 10% of just credit spending that is imploding. As I`ve said many times this plan will only work if government throws hundreds of billions at it which they can`t because it`ll collapse the bond market.
    On the international side tens of trillions have already evaporated, the US $800B `recovery plan` won`t cover a tenth of that.
    Do you have any numbers to support your claim government spending can and will replace consumer spending until a long term stability plan can be put in place?
    Do you have a reason to believe even if Ottawa had a plan the`re competent enough to implement it successfully? I remind you they have done nothing right in the last 40 years.
    Make your case Herb, I`d be most interested to hear the whole thing.

  25. Herb, I`ll go first

    I`m not unfamiliar of your cause to get consumers spending but if an extra $300B in consumer debt didn`t keep the economy going $32B isn`t. I know the great call politicians have in keeping consumer spending going but it`s gone, and government spending to replace it is a parachute at best, not a recovery plan.

    The root cause is an overspent, over mortgaged and under saved consumer, government can`t save the consumer. While stimulus might benefit with some consumer breathing room it will be the last gasp unless a global long term stability plan is devised. Under any long term plan the father in debt the consumer and government the deeper the hole which makes further losses now without pressuring consumers will create a faster and stronger recovery. The only agenda of any recovery must be global consumer recovery without putting taxpayers and future taxpayers in the same sinking boat of debt overload.

    The chances are the consumers aren`t going to buy the `recovery` story and save instead of spend anyway, odds are.

    Can we at least agree these spending plans are mostly bandaids and a parachute at best?

    From there we could examine to what extent current deficit government revenues could decline over the 6 months which should be enough info to estimate a time span in which it`ll take government to burn through available credit.

    btw this is just an invitation to converse. My position on the system is and until results change that it is broken beyond repair. Government is broken past the point of implementing a good plan,,, even if they had one. Enter at your own risk.

  26. Robert, too late to write last night – time difference.

    The problem we have is that income has declined and is declining further. Manufacturing jobs have gone to low-cost countries and been replaced by Macjobs, or have simply disappeared with the demand for the goods produced. Resource jobs are declining with the reduced, lack-of-sales-driven demand for resources. Service sector jobs decline with reduced demand for their services due to lack of demand by those employed (or unemployed) in other sectors. (I know what you think of the public sector, but let’s not get into that for now.)

    Can we agree that the current problem is one of lack of liquidity? If not, you'd better let the world know. Your "overspent, over mortgaged and under saved consumer" is a "root cause" only because he does not have the money to continue spending and driving demand. The problem with debt is that it has been spent, is not only not available for further spending, but must be serviced and so reduces current ability to spend. And since many now do not have the income to drive the economy or service their debts, we have our little problem.

    I don't know if consumers can be saved. All of them declaring bankruptcy certainly would solve their personal credit crises. Don't think it would solve the international credit crisis, though. And not having the income to service debt or generate demand solves nothing, either individually or collectively.

    What "global long term stability plan" is possible under the circumstances? Forgiving all debts on Day "X" would solve the debt-servicing problem, but would it free up enough cash to restore the demand for all the goods and services no longer in demand? Since money does not "evaporate" but goes into pockets, are you going to force the financial and marketing geniuses who made it in quantity to give it back?

    Will the stimulus packages organized on both sides of the border work? As I noted on "Greater Fool" on 28 January, ours is "too diffuse and too slow for the immediate impact we need to save or create other jobs." I wish our neighbours better luck with their numerically greater problem.

    Robert, if not a federal government, broken or not, corrupt or not, to take whatever action is possible for the common good, then who? The demand-supply economy is the only one we have right now. Supply is not low, demand is on account of actual or feared loss if income. So increasing national liquidity through national debt would be the indicated action. Sucking our thumbs as we go down the tubes is not.

  27. "Cdn consumers added $300B to their $1T debt in the last year"

    Back to tipping points. What caused the addition of that amount of debt? I suggest the majority of it was energy costs, and more specifically $147 barrel of oil. Given that the cause of this was speculators/money pouring out of financials, the one thing that is sure is that it wasn't driven by Socialism.

    It was Capitalist in nature and has created a myriad of spin off problems and brought us where we are. Enter the Dragon.

  28. Morning Herb, I`ll skip by any response to some details that are in dispute and get to the nub.

    "Supply is not low, demand is on account of actual or feared loss if income. So increasing national liquidity through national debt would be the indicated action."

    Wrong, demand dropped because consumers globally overspent, but lets say government does step in to replace consumer spending with $32B. Considering consumers spent at least the extra $300B in debt and it wasn`t enough to keep the economy going telling people that $32B in government spending will save their jobs is an outright lie.

    Morning Comrade

    "It was Capitalist in nature and has created a myriad of spin off problems and brought us where we are. Enter the Dragon."
    Corruption brought us this mess which is why it`s even affecting socialist countries. You only need to look at Ottawa to see what they did with the windfall revenue of record high commodity prices> They expand government to a record size, pure socialism and not capitalism. As I said earlier it was not capitalism that failed, it was the increase in revenue generated by capitalism that funded unbridled socialism that failed. The US has headed down that path even further under Obama which is why the markets continue to tank.

  29. "Given that the cause of this was speculators/money pouring out of financials, the one thing that is sure is that it wasn't driven by Socialism."

    Given that Oil and everything that is touched by energy costs, and derivatives, went up in cost by very significant amounts, this was the tipping point regarding debt increases and the state of consumers purchasing power. This phenomenon was caused by the shift of huge sums of frightened capital running from the real estate and financial sector bubbles. This was caused by speculators who are Capitalists. Therefore, the tipping point is of Capitalist origins.

    No one twisted their arms to create mortgage backed securities, backed by mortgages that were destined to tank, and no one twisted their arms to bundle them, triple A rate them and sell them to other Capitalist institutions as bonafide investments. No one forced them to run for cover in Oil when their ponzi schemes unraveled.

    Capitalist greed and lack of ethics caused this.

    Blaming the Socialist nature of housing policies of previous administrations is akin to the tired excuse wagon of blaming previous governments for current government failures.That is a tired old story. So is complaining about the size of government after being in power for 8 years.

    Besides all of that, the very nature of the stock market and particularly things such as futures and shorts and derivatives, is little more than gambling anyway. Sometimes gamblers lose.

  30. As far as the bail outs are concerned, that's almost laughable if it weren't so serious for so many. Sure it's just a stop gap, seeing the numbers now who could think otherwise? But there they are, the great capitalist gods standing with their hands out and sniveling that it's not enough. So? Go get your money sonny and put it in the pot. Of course they don't want to, because the entire foundation of their business philosophies is built on using everyone else's money, conning and scamming. So they cry it's not enough and want more government money, tax payer money.

    How very socialist of them.

  31. "No one twisted their arms to create mortgage backed securities, backed by mortgages that were destined to tank"

    lol, capitalism is not an ideology it`s commerce supported by consumer spending. Creating false security by massive government hiring (socialism) created the over spending.
    sry C but it all falls on the shoulders of government for direction to commerce and not commerce.

    "Capitalist greed and lack of ethics caused this."

    The lack of oversight that Congress ignored caused the problem. Are you saying the Democrats intentional obstructed oversight to promote greed?

  32. Afternoon Herb.

    I`ve the time to touch on a couple of points.

    "are you going to force the financial and marketing geniuses who made it in quantity to give it back?'

    lol, yes but I wouldn`t need to force them.

    ""too diffuse and too slow for the immediate impact we need to save or create other jobs." I wish our neighbours better luck with their numerically greater problem."

    I hope readers note we both agree these are not rescue plans but parachutes.
    While you have noted the US has a numerically greater problem they have a great advantage of being the first to see a consumer recovery while the rest of the world struggles waiting for global consumer demand. This may sound rosy to some but if it`s a time based solution it will take decades. If patience runs out then it`ll be a global conflict. Canada is in a worse position by twice because we are an exporter. To complicate matters government has only about 10% of the spending ability to turn things around.
    There are other possibilities such as global protectionism or as you noted forgiving a few trillion in consumer debt, I see no long term solution in any three, protectionism, debt forgiveness or war.

    As long as government acts above the law and allows corporation to the same so we get back to my original statement from my first post on Garth ca

    "the fed sux"

    A broken system will not fix itself. The last 40 years of `incremental steps` are all backwards steps, baby or not. You have nothing to support incremental steps to improvement Herb so I ask again, why are you defended a corrupt broken system instead of defending the future of this country?

  33. And finally Herb

    "What "global long term stability plan" is possible under the circumstances?"

    I have worked out a global solution, a global transportation makeover using maglev.

    I`ve spent my life studying and participating in commerce from small business to major companies.
    I`ve especially enjoyed bringing competing companies enjoying a benefit by working together when there were serious conflicts to overcome.
    I`ve worked on a global solution that includes the initial competition for the best design to investment and revenue generation and distribution while maintaining complete national sovereign.

    I need a half a mil and three months to prepare a certified prospectus that will encourage the federal government to start the process off with $50M.

    Really Herb what`s so hard about supporting that when the option is to keep squabbling about how broken the system is.
    Personally you can take incremental steps on fixing Ottawa but because I still think it`s a lost cause I`m disappointed again that a global solution is rejected without soliciting a prospectus.

    the harsh transition of reality replacing hope has begun

  34. Capitalism isn't an ideology? I beg to differ. It is both an economic and a political ideology in real terms. Going a bit further, for some it is a religion too.

    Putting tax dollars to work by Empire building within government feeds Capitalist ventures and offers opportunities for the politically and financially faithful via rewards. It also aids in expanding the network of economic and regulatory controls necessary to enhance corporate interests.

    Corporate commerce is the hand behind the economic and regulatory system. As evidenced with financials and free trade agreements. These things are not short term plans. They are long term and have resulted in an intentional power imbalance which is now seen among other things by the too big to fail concept. Just another form of ransom, and thus the indenturing of the future.

    Seems to me Greenspan was the one who based his policy on trusting the ethics of the financials, and if the Repubs had any objections they had sufficient time to make proper adjustments. What I read says they went in the opposite direction and were instrumental in deregulating.

    "Acknowledged Roger Cole, head of the Federal Reserve's banking supervision division, "I will say that given what we know now, yes, we could have done more sooner."


    "Dodd said he wanted to know why it took the regulators more than three years to act despite evidence that they themselves identified problems in the subprime market.";col1

    Remember Spitzer the Democrat? Scuttle butt had it that the reason the knives came out for him was because he had been working hard on the sub prime scam.


    And here:

    "Instead of regulating the banks that had run amok, Bush’s regulators went on the warpath against Spitzer and states attempting to stop predatory practices. Making an unprecedented use of the legal power of “federal pre-emption,” Bush-bots ordered the states to NOT enforce their consumer protection laws."


    That's what I'm saying.

  35. "Capitalism isn't an ideology? I beg to differ. It is both an economic and a political ideology in real terms. Going a bit further, for some it is a religion too."
    lol, if it`s an ideology it`s one of a kind because every government uses capitalism as its basis for commerce. lol, a religion, not sure i get that. If you won`t buy your boots from a maker of boots because a profit is made making purchasing goods a cult, you make your own boots, is that how it works? lol, relax, I like satire as well.
    "Corporate commerce is the hand behind the economic and regulatory system."
    That regulatory system is our government and the results can`t be denied, the system is broken beyond repair.

    "if the Repubs had any objections they had sufficient time to make proper adjustments. What I read says they went in the opposite direction and were instrumental in deregulating."

    Deregulation gained a traction under President RR. Bill Clinton gave several speeches during his tenure on the choking affect regulation had on commerce.

    "Dodd said he wanted to know why it took the regulators more than three years to act despite evidence that they themselves identified problems in the subprime market."

    Good questions, I also wonder why the Dems blocked any action with Fannie and Freddie when the first cracks appeared.

  36. Bill Clinton gave several speeches during his tenure on the choking affect regulation had on commerce

    To be clear it should have read several speeches that contained or related to regulations.

    500 thou, oh well........

  37. I don't buy boots. I wear what my Son outgrows. I know I'm cheating some poor worker in Vietnam who makes $600/yr., and a corporate head office somewhere, but I also deny the government the harmonized sales tax. I've been known to hold a grudge.

    I have no idea why Dems blocked Fannie's crack. Maybe Bill liked the look of it. But that doesn't address the Spitzer issues, or Greenspan. And yes Dodd's question was a good one, as is the issue of why the flow of information on Madoff wasn't acted on until he couldn't maintain the pyramid any longer.

    Something is rotten in Denmark.

  38. "Dodd's question was a good one, as is the issue of why the flow of information on Madoff wasn't acted on until he couldn't maintain the pyramid any longer."

    There are many good questions.

    Our federal government won`t act until they can`t mask the results of the highest number of parent denied children.

    The answer to the US financial scandal is the same as our social scandal, the one I`ve been giving since 1999, corruption.